Friday, April 15, 2011


The passage I referred to in class appears in Book 16, lines 328-355. In it Telemachus says:

 " . . . I think your last plan would gain us nothing.        345
  Reconsider, I urge you. 
  You'll waste time roaming around our holdings,
  probing the fieldhands man by man, while the suitors
  sit in our house, devouring all our goods -
  those brazen rascals never spare a scrap!                      350
  But I do advise you to sound the women out:
  who are disloyal to you, who are guiltless?
  The men - I say no testing them farm by farm.
  That's work for later, if you have really seen
  a sign from Zeus whose shield is storm and thunder." 355 
   . . . Now as father and son conspired, shaping plans . . .

What do you think of this discourse between Odysseus and Telemachus in Book 16?


  1. Telemachus is pointing out Odysseus wrong doing and requesting he make a change of taking charge. Instead of doing nothing.

  2. The discourse between Odysseus and Telemachus in Book 16 is how Telemachus is just telling Odysseus how he should change his plans about killing the suitors. I also, agree with Tiffany, Telemachus wants them to take charge instead of doing nothing.

  3. It is shown in this particular quote that Telemachus, has grown up to be a great man, without the help of his father. The fact that Telemachus is telling the King what he should do is really amazing. It also shows how much Telemachus has become like Odysseus, and how great of a King he will be in the future. Telemachus has become a man of strategy just like his father, and I believe that Odysseus is very proud of Telemachus.

  4. Like Brittany said, this quote does indeed show Odysseus that Telemachus has become a man from his own Odyssey. As stated in class: Odysseus was well know for being very wise, and for being the "Master Of War"; proving him wrong would mean that Odysseus isn't as wise as everyone thinks.

    For Odyssues to think about rushing in to persue the Suitors is very weird because throughtout his whole Odyssey, Odysseus took his time traveling and thinking. Maybe Athena was testing Odysseus, to see if he really had patience (hypothetically speaking because this wasn't stated within the Canto)?

  5. I agree with both of you guys. I think that Telemachus has grown to become a better man probably better that his father Odysseus, but I think it will take some more time in order for this to happen. However I do believe that because of the time he has spend with his father has gain the knowledge to help his father, and I also think that maybe Athena help him as well!!! because she was involve all along with Telemachus to save Odysseus...
    and we didn't see Telemachus act by him self throughout the whole story.

  6. I have to say that I disagree with you guys. I don't think that Telemachus is necessarily a better man than his father. However, he does seem to have more compassion than Odysseus. Odysseus simply wants to kill everyone without asking any questions, but Telemachus knows that not everyone has been disloyal to his father. And I think that the only reason why Telemachus is more compassionate than Odysseus is because he has not yet been hardened by the perils of war. He has not experienced the meaningless death that is caused by war. He has not and probably will not ever spill the blood of innocent men for someone else's sake, as did Odysseus.